Hannah Soto didn’t set out to build a production company. She saw problems in her industry. People below a certain title were treated poorly. Productions were inefficient. Systems were messy. So she did what many capable, quietly ambitious freelancers do: She fixed what was broken.

That decision eventually became Aridia, a production company that worked with major clients like Apple, Coca-Cola, and the Olympics.

Not bad for an accidental business.

But this episode is not a shiny “look how big the business got” story. That would be too easy. Also, a little boring. This conversation is about what happens when the business you built starts asking for a version of you that you no longer want to be.

Hannah and Austin talk about growth, identity, client approval, excellence versus perfection, and the cost of staying in a business model simply because it still works on paper.

Hannah shares how one difficult international production exposed how much of her worth was tied to client approval. She had done everything she could to fix the situation. She spent money, energy, time, and health trying to make the client happy again. And then she realized something brutal and freeing: She didn’t even want to work with that client again.

That moment became part of a much bigger shift. Hannah began untangling her value from her work, rethinking what success actually meant, and eventually moving more deeply into coaching.

This episode is for the freelancer, consultant, or creative entrepreneur who has built something real but feels the tension of an old model getting too tight around the shoulders. Like a business blazer from 2017. Technically still wearable. Spiritually suspicious.

Key Points

• Accidental entrepreneurship: Hannah started by solving obvious problems in production, especially around how people were treated and how systems were run.
• Brand name versus personal name: Hannah explains why choosing a company name gave the business room to grow beyond her, while still allowing her personal brand to build trust.
• Excellence is not perfection: Growing up with a strong family mantra around excellence shaped Hannah’s drive, but also created pressure she later had to untangle.
• When client approval becomes a trap: Hannah shares the painful story of a project where she gave everything to win back a client’s approval and still couldn’t get it.
• Not every client deserves access: Austin and Hannah discuss the difference between generous, honest clients and clients who take advantage of vulnerability.
• The cost of staying: Hannah’s key question — “What is it costing me to stay?” — becomes a powerful filter for any freelancer considering a pivot.
• Momentum is not alignment: Just because a business is moving does not mean it is moving in the right direction.
• Work beside life, not above it: Hannah describes the difference between building life around work and letting work sit beside health, marriage, friendships, and purpose.
• You may never feel ready: For freelancers who want to pivot, Hannah suggests clarifying the bare minimum needed, knowing the vision, and accepting that readiness may never arrive with a little gift basket.
• Being before doing: In her coaching work, Hannah helps entrepreneurs explore who they need to become, not just what they need to achieve.

Notable Quotes

“I don’t know yet is a really powerful answer.”

“Fear is going to keep us smaller.”

“What is it costing me to stay?”

“My work sits beside my life. It is not connected to my value or my worth.”

“A company is a reflection of the founder.”

"At some point, we just need to decide, I want what is on the other side of this discomfort more than I want comfort. And so what am I willing to embrace for sake of that vision?"

“There will always be an excuse if you look for it. So just start.”

Resources Mentioned

• Hannah Soto on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hellohannahsoto/
• Email Hannah at hannah[AT]lovingthegap[DOT]com (Be sure to mention that you heard about it here on the Freelance Cake Podcast so she knows where you came from)
• Arridia: https://www.arridiagroup.com/
• Freelance Cake Community: freelancecake.com/community
• Book 1:1 coaching with Austin: https://www.freelancecake.com/freelance-business-coaching

Watch This Episode

Transcript

00:00

...that we are human. It's while we're committed to excellence, it's not perfection. And instead of saying there was a mistake and here's how we've fixed it, there was just no  regard for, oh, I really appreciate your ownership or thank you for getting that resolved over and above the contract.

00:22

Hey there, welcome to the Freelance Cake Podcast.  I'm your host, Austin L. Church, founder of the Freelance Cake community, the goal of this show is to help full-time, committed freelancers get better leverage. As the sworn enemy of busyness and burnout, I have no desire whatsoever to see you work harder. So I reveal the specific beliefs, principles, and practices you can use right away to make the freelance game more profitable and satisfying. So chill out, listen in because the best is yet to come.

01:01

Welcome to another episode of the Freelance Cake Podcast. There comes a point in many freelance and creative careers where the biggest question is no longer how to get clients or make more money. It's something deeper. Does the business you've built still fit the life you want and the type of person you want to be?

01:26

You can be successful on paper and still feel the tension of knowing something needs to change. That's exactly what this conversation is about. My guest today is Hannah Soto. Hannah is an entrepreneur, producer, and founder who built a successful production company by solving real problems in her industry, creating better systems, and growing a business that extended far beyond herself.

01:54

But as you'll hear, this conversation isn't just about scaling a company. It's about what happens when success and satisfaction stop being the same thing. I've been looking forward to sharing this conversation because Hannah brings a rare mix of honesty, wisdom, and self-awareness  to the topic of growth. She and I don't talk about hustle, vanity metrics, or growing for the sake of it.

02:22

We talk about having the courage to evolve when your old model no longer fits you. We talk about how she accidentally built a thriving business by noticing gaps others ignored, and she simply solved them. We talk about reinvention. What happens when the emotional and financial cost of quote unquote success are no longer sustainable? How do you know when you've outgrown your business model?

02:50

Some pivots we have to make before we know what is coming next or what the answers are. Hannah and I also get into identity. How many entrepreneurs tie self-worth to productivity, achievement, and being needed? Hannah shares what it looked like to untangle her sense of worth from work  and why that shift can change not only your business, but also your health, relationships and quality of life.

03:21

You'll hear us talk about clients, boundaries, replacing yourself inside the business, and why personal growth  often has to happen before business growth can. If you're in a season where your next level may require letting go of an old version of success and of yourself, this episode is for you. We'll link to Hannah's work and everything we mentioned in the show notes. And now enjoy my conversation with Hannah Soto.

03:49

Hey friend. So I have been looking forward to our conversation because I look forward to any conversation I get to have with you, but I've never gotten the full story on who you are as a creative entrepreneur. So I'm excited to hear more myself. Also excited to share our conversation with listeners later. Let's start here. How did you go about starting a production company?

04:25

Yes. So it certainly wasn't with that intent. I would say when I first started, I had no idea the scale of what I was building. I just saw problems with the industry in Chicago and I saw solutions that were within my reach. So for some context, I had started as a photographer since I was eight years old. I knew I wanted to be photographer. I was a 10 year old with a five year plan. So just very, very type A. And I finally realized that I didn't want to do that, which is an interesting story in and of itself. But I discovered a production shortly after naming that I didn't want to be a photographer. And I was freelancing, interning, getting my, you know, experience and I was honestly appalled at the way that people were treated when their title fell below a certain line and it broke my heart and then in addition to that I love systems and efficiency. I see a lot of creativity in strategy, and so I saw a gap both in how people were treated but also how the systems will run on a production and so I said well I can fix that.

05:45

And I set out to do just that and it's been, gosh, 12 years since that.

05:54

So did you ever try your hand at selling photography?

06:00

No, cause it was the last semester of my senior year that I realized I didn't want to be a photographer. I loved creating images, but I didn't want to make money from that. I didn't want other people's opinions is what it came down to. And so I had a phenomenal mentor, Elizabeth, that I met every Monday at noon. And she was the first person I said out loud, I don't think I want to do this, which at that point I'm in my young twenties. It felt like air quotes, everything I've worked for my entire life is meaningless now because at that age, since I was eight years old, I was going to be a photographer. And so it felt really heavy to me at that time. And thankfully I had the wisdom of Elizabeth in that. Well, let's just get curious, lean into the unknown. And lo and behold, there was a whole world out there that was well better suited for me in production.

06:56

I wouldn't have predicted that this is the way our conversation would go, but you said leaning in with curiosity instead of, I presume, backing away with fear. How did you go about doing that at that time?

07:13

Yeah, it's a great question. It wasn't with as much clarity as I think people imagined. It was a lot of I don't knows. It was a lot of, well, let me try it out. Now I use the language collecting data, because this fits a lot into the coaching work I do now where I'm, know, you want to collect data, you want to see how something feels, how you experience it and fall in love with the unknown, because fear is going to keep us smaller. If we're afraid that I won't make enough, if we're afraid I'm too old or too late  or I don't have the experience, that mindset is going to keep us small. Whereas if we fall in love with the gap, we are curious, we say, well, what could be possible and what would happen if I look under this rock and we really let curiosity without even trying to predict where we're going to end. And we just let curiosity be our compass. I think it's way more powerful and a heck of a lot more fun.

08:17

Did Elizabeth, your mentor, give you some of that language?

08:26

It's hard to remember specific language. What I remember being really powerful is she gave me permission to not know. And that was huge for me.

08:40

And you're the 10 year old with the five year plan. Fast forward. You now have a bachelor's degree and it sounds like it was a new territory for you to not know what came next.

08:55

Yeah. I mean, I literally only applied to one school. I have, I always knew exactly what I wanted. There weren't options. It was, this is the plan. These are the five steps. This is what follows A, B and C. That was just how I was wired.

09:09

And so to  feel like all of that was thrown out the window, of course, in hindsight, it wasn't that experience helped me be ready to start a production company, but the feeling was that it was all thrown out the window. Elizabeth really gave me permission not only to say it out loud in a safe space, but to say, and I don't know what's next and to not be shamed for that. And in a sense to be celebrated for, I'm so glad that you said that out loud. That's huge, and I think especially creative people, there's a lot of pressure to know. There's a lot of pressure to have a snazzy answer. And sometimes we don't. And I don't know yet  is a really powerful answer.

09:55

You mentioned heaviness too. And I think that feeling is the feeling is a feeling that a lot of us can relate to. What was the source of that heaviness? Was it not knowing you already kind of mentioned, maybe it seemed like some of the experiences you had up to that point were now a waste. I forget your exact word choice, but why did you feel heavy? And then we can fast forward because I know a lot has happened since then.

10:27

It felt heavy to me because a lot of my... so again, a lot of this is in hindsight. I didn't have this language then, but a lot of my value and worth was tied into what I was doing. And so I took a lot of pride in being the 10-year-old with a five-year plan  and  knowing exactly what I wanted and being ambitious. And I think in like family circles, there's often a really resourceful and a really un-resourceful side to some of the experiences growing up. And so my maiden name is Fairman. And so our Fairman family mantra was we're Fairmans. We don't settle for mediocrity. We pursue excellence, which is a  really cool way to look at the world and a heck of a lot of pressure. based on personality and all these things, I just, it led me to spiral in for things to feel heavy instead of now how I relate to it.

11:30

I can, that's really empowering and it's about excellence, not perfection. But you know, at 20 years old, I wasn't ready to  delineate between the two.

11:39

Well, yeah, because how do you even  embrace or love the unknown with excellence? It seems almost like a contradiction because inherently trying to walk into the unknown future is messy. And I know that now that we've got some life behind us, but yeah, that pressure again, I think is something that a lot of us can relate to myself personally. Okay. So you accidentally started a production company?

12:22

I did. So as I mentioned, I saw these two gaps in the industry. I was living in Chicago at the time. And I just thought, well, I can do that better. And for context, I had started a company previously, two companies actually. And so I had an entrepreneurial mindset already. But for some reason, I wasn't thinking about this as building a company. I was thinking about it as I could build this freelance career for myself. And at the same time, I didn't name the company Hannah Fairman productions, which was common in Chicago at that time, just to use the producer's name. And very early on, I brought partners in to say these could be the arms of production that represent the company. So perhaps subconsciously I knew I was building a company, but I certainly wasn't building a company that I thought Apple and Coca-Cola and the Olympics would fly around the world to do a production. That never... That was not within my realm of possibilities when I started it.

13:26

So you're saying you were able to attract some small clients?

13:30

Yeah, you know, or Gen 10 or whatever.

13:34

So I want to focus in on one thing. You had to do it all over again, would you still pick a brand name instead of using your name?

13:46

Oh, absolutely. I think that that was crucial.  And again, I maybe subconsciously made that decision. remember people asking me, why wouldn't you just do Hannah Fairman Productions? And I said that I wanted it to be about more than me, but I meant that from a culture and values, not necessarily was I considering building a team and scaling a company at that point. But I think it was very important.

14:15

You gave yourself room to grow because you didn't put your name on it.

14:19

Yeah. Yeah.

14:21

So  if you were to give some advice  to advanced freelancers who are thinking about scaling up,  becoming a company instead of running a business, would you recommend the same to them? Pick a brand name rather than use your name?

14:39

I think it matters what their goals are. So if their goals are that they're not the one providing every service, delivering every service, then I do think a brand name is resourceful. If they are interested in creating a job for themselves and they don't want to manage a team, they're not interested in scaling beyond delivering their own work, then I don't necessarily think that it would be as relevant.

15:07

I like the way you put it. I think most, at least the coaching clients I have and some of the folks inside the freelance cake community, when they think about scaling up, are wanting to scale up precisely because they want to be less hands on with every detail of every project. And so I'll have to pass on your advice. I've gone back and forth with it myself. I've operated under my own name. I've had various brand names over the years, see the pros and cons of both, but I think you're right. It just comes down to goals.

15:43

If I can add... Even with a company name, I still think it's personal brand is more relevant than ever. So even though you may want to have a brand as a company and that the service is scalable beyond you, having a brand reputation for the company and a personal brand for the individual founder or freelancer, I think is more relevant than ever.

16:11

Can you explain  what you see as the benefits of that?

16:16

Yeah , I think it comes down to no like and trust. And so people are more and more suspicious of company brands if they don't know the founder behind it. And so  being able to say company ABC is led by founder X and they can get to know, like, trust founder X, then they buy into company ABC and they can trust the team to deliver the service because of what the personal brand has, like managed in the sense of know, can trust.

16:52

I mean, we have a ton of examples of that now, like CEOs or founders who build a personal brand. And then some of that authority, expertise, notoriety even bleeds over to whatever company they're leading or even multiple companies. So going back to your sort of work history, you have done the production thing for 12 years. One of the reasons that I wanted to talk to you is you're now coaching too. So talk to me about that turning point. At what point did you say, Hey, maybe it'll be less like being room mother on a set, and more like  working with people one-on-one to get clarity? Talk about that whole process.

17:54

Absolutely. So  I hired an executive coach. I guess it's been maybe three years ago now, uh, as I was founder and CEO of Arridia felt a lot of tension and stuck  and, just needed support. an executive coach felt like a good solution. And I'll caveat for years, people had said, Hannah, you would make such a great coach. And I would brush people off and say, I like developing my team. I'm not interested in doing that outside of the Arridia team. Then I hired a coach and he focuses on ontological coaching, which the first time he said it, I was like, you mean the cancer? I heard oncology. I'd never heard it. So I was like, I don't even know what that means.

18:39

I don't want cancer coaching, but thanks.

18:41

Right? So ontological is about your way of being. It focuses less on the goal line. I want to hit 10 million and more on the soul line. Who am I committed to becoming? Who do I need to become to be a founder that's ready to build a $10 million business? And working with that coach, Johan was  transformational. Like one of the top three investments, return on investments I have ever made. And about halfway, we worked together for a year, about halfway through, he invited me to a training for coaches. And I was like, yeah, I still don't want to be a coach, but I would love to deepen my understanding of the tools. Like I went and got, this was in 2015 maybe, I got certified as a yoga teacher, did my 200 hours, not because I wanted to teach yoga, but because I wanted to deepen my practice. And so I thought I was approaching this training the same way. Turns out it radically changed my relationship to work and my calling on getting to do work that matters. And I ended up, you know, doing the six month certification and found being able to coach people was really, really fulfilling and impactful because who I as an entrepreneur needed five, seven years ago that understood the business world, the advertising world, and had these ontological tools... my gosh, I would have done anything to have someone with that experience and perspective and support in my corner. And so now I get to do that for other people. And that I think is going to be my life's best work.

20:29

How would you describe your relationship with work before then?

20:33

Oh my gosh.

20:38

Oh, just because we want to open a can of worms, right? We just want those worms to be everywhere.

20:43

It  ook a long time for me to not have a feeling of pain when I thought about it because it was so unhealthy for so long. And that my, even alluded it to it, you know, as a little girl that my identity was wrapped up in work. But I built my life around work. Work came first, came before my marriage. It came before my friendships. It came before my own health. And work was what everything else situated itself around. That was beforehand. Now I build my life around work. My life, my relationships, my marriage, my friendships, my health are the priorities and my work sits beside it. It's not something that's low on the totem pole that I don't consider or think about because I feel more connected to my work than I have in a very long time. But it isn't connected to my value or my worth. It is something that I feel compelled and excited to show up for, but it has no regard on my value or worth, and the other things in my life are not taking a hit as a result of it.

22:08

Do you remember specific insights or unlocks that enabled you to start pulling apart your identity or separating your identity from work?

22:25

I do. It was a shoot. It was an international shoot and I'm going to be intentionally vague, but it was an international shoot and things did not go well. In some part because of my own contribution, I can take ownership and there were other outside factors completely outside of my control and I just, I now with such tenderness look back at this version of Hannah that was so committed to other people approving and liking her. And the shoot didn't go well and I did everything that I could. It cost me financially, physically, emotionally, relationally to try to resolve it and make my end client say, you know, I approve of you basically. And that didn't happen. We were able to deliver the service and the product as our contract, but it was not a relationship that they would want to work with us again. And that crushed me. It absolutely crushed me because I just said I've literally given everything. Like I've invested tens of thousands of dollars trying to fix this and hours and you know, health and wellbeing to try to fix this so that you'll like me again. And  it was never going to happen. And there's a little piece that broke in that, that just was like, I... I can't do this. It's not. Now I know it's not worth it, but at that point I just said, it's not possible. And so it made me consider how would I continue without that approval, without that resolve? And that was a question that, I mean, it probably, it probably took me a year to be able to answer. It was some really, really deep grief. Therapy coaching came shortly after that. That was a real turning point.

24:36

So to summarize, it was like, no matter what you did, you couldn't get back into this person's high regard?

24:48

Correct.

24:49

And that was  devastating. It sounds like.

24:55

It was. And what is sad for me to look at is at no point did I care what Hannah thought of Hannah. Because now when I look at the situation, I actually don't respect that individual. I think that they hung me out to dry and didn't acknowledge the efforts that I was making. That was far beyond the scope of our agreement. And so I was so busy trying to get them to want to work with me again. I never stopped to consider. I actually don't want to work with them.

25:29

Are they being fair? Are they being reasonable? Are they being generous or charitable or humane or kind? And it's easy, I think as a service provider to get trapped in those situations where you've lost sight of even like what your contractual obligations are. And now it's, you've become enmeshed with this person who's taking every advantage they can.

26:03

And nothing's ever enough and that we are human. It's while we're committed to excellence, it's not perfection. And instead of saying there was a mistake and here's how we've fixed it, there was just no regard for, oh, I really appreciate your ownership or thank you for getting that resolved over and above the contract.

26:28

I think it's helpful to remember that not every client is like that. Right? Like the clients that we want aren't like that. I remember this one specific day, speaking of days or experiences that were just this giant gut punch. I had this one client who told me that his company was acquiring another company and he said, don't tell anyone. And I was like, absolutely not.

26:58

And then later in the day, I mentioned to the guy who worked in marketing at another company, this guy owned, Hey, you know, when that new company kind of joins the portfolio and that guy said, what are you talking about? And I assume that since I was the new, new kid on the block, at least that's how I felt that everyone else already knew. But in that moment, when he said, what are you talking about? I realized I did the one thing that my client had asked me not to do. And it was not, it was like a sin of omission, not a sin of commission, right? But still I felt weird about it for the rest of the day. And finally I called my client and I said, here's like, I have to come clean with you. You said, do not repeat this. I repeated the very thing you asked me not to repeat.

27:57

And I know that I would not feel back in integrity with myself unless I let you know. Can you guess at his response?

28:10

I would hope and imagine that he appreciated your ownership, but it could go both ways.

28:14

He gave me another project before the call was over. So I think we can get so enmeshed with the  one client, like I said, the type of client who, as soon as they see a vulnerability in you or feel like, you owe them something will absolutely suck you dry and then make you feel like trash for not repaying them two to three X or five X or 10 X.  Meanwhile, there's this whole other group of people who are like, wow, I trust you more because you were honest after you made a mistake.

28:54

Yeah. And those are the type of people that I would love to call partners and collaborators and clients.

29:01

Because nobody's perfect.

29:03

And by owning that and getting to be an example of how you respond when you make a mistake, that tells me a lot more about a person than being flawless.

29:17

Now  you're more focused on coaching, I think, than production. Is that right?

29:23

Yeah. So we're still doing production. Our team does most of that. I'll go on set for a couple of the IB clients, but I'm much more removed from that world.

29:34

What...  Let me rephrase that. How did that pivot happen? So you went from, hey, I'm curious about coaching. I want to have a better grasp of the tools to, while my relationship with work needs to change, it has changed... I think coaching is something I would be good at to coaching is my primary focus? What else has happened that led you to that primary focus?

30:08

Honestly, I feel that it comes to  what is more fulfilling to me and what is more in line with what I want to contribute to the world. And so I have had a lot of fun building, growing, running Arridia,  and it doesn't need as much from me. And so I am excited to find an outlet, coaching, that's really fulfilling. In addition to that, I was so desperate for this type of guidance that wasn't about strategy. It's not more to do. It's not here's a metric that's going to solve everything. It's a company is a reflection of the founder. And so if the company, if growing the company growing your freelance business feels sticky or it feels like grind or there's a relationship with your work that you'd like to change, that's a reflection of You the owner the freelancer the founder and it trickles into the rest of the world. And a strategist or a consultant can give  here's a tool or framework that can help increase profitability, decrease your hours

31:28

In some cases, it may be that simple that you just need a new framework, but I think most of the time it is a internal, how am I relating to work? What meaning am I making from work, my relationship with my team? That where  actual transformation happens. And so I wish that I'd found that resource sooner. And so now I'm  ecstatic to get to be part of that for other founders and entrepreneurs and creatives.

32:02

You don't need to share  exact numbers, but whatever you're willing to share about the financial path. Like, did you, I would like to hear, I think everyone else would like to hear too. Did you just sort of turn off the production faucet and turn on the coaching faucet? Was it pretty clean and linear? Was it messy? Like, how did it go?  Because I would think a lot of folks maybe want the pivot, but feel like, well, I'm still dependent upon my existing business for income, so I don't know how to get from here to there. So what was that journey like for you?

32:48

Great question. So it was not seamless with Arridia, especially the more that you replace yourself. You need to compensate those people accordingly. And so I, especially as the primary breadwinner for our family, it felt like there was a lot at stake to say, I'm gonna spend less time and receive less compensation here, and I'm gonna start this new thing from the ground up. And so there was absolutely a financial hit, but what mattered more to me than money is what is it costing me to stay? And I think that's a question that we don't ask ourselves enough because we just are in this forward momentum of let me do more. If I just get a couple more clients, if I close some more packages, that the solution will be on the other end of that like frenetic energy. And we don't often say, what is continuing in this momentum, in this path going to cost me long-term, relationally, physically, even financially?

33:56

For me, a big one is my, my health. And so understanding is that cost worth the short-term loss financially? The answer was no. If I took a pretty significant financial hit and I got to say it was worth it.

34:14

I have so many thoughts, so many new directions we could go. What about people, what advice would you give to more established, advanced freelancers who are ready for something new? They think they want to move into more expansive, generative space. They want their work to be more fulfilling. But again, they just feel like they're sort of chained to the business that pays their family's bills...

34:54

Yeah. Yeah. I think that there is a, you know, hierarchy of needs. We need to make sure that you can put food on the table and have a roof over our head. That is important, but I think that bar is much lower than people are willing to admit. And I think there's a certain level of, you know, burn the boats that if we have this, and I'll speak for myself, I felt that when I had this safety net, I would keep coming back to it and I wouldn't go all in. And so I made the decision to just completely cut my salary from Arridia at one point because I was using it as a safety net instead of going all in. And it changed the way that I showed up and it changed the way that I related to  work and the coaching work in particular.

35:47

So I think everybody needs to know what their bare minimum number is, or if they have the option to say, okay, I've got this  many months saved up that I can give myself a runway. Outside of that, that's a question everybody has answer for themselves. Outside of that, I think we're never really going to feel ready. And at some point, we just need to decide, I want what is on the other side of this discomfort more than I want comfort. And so what am I willing to embrace for sake of that vision? And so knowing that vision would be really important, knowing what type of life I want to create, knowing how I want to relate to work, knowing what type of business or financial future  or relational future that I want that's willing, that makes me willing to embrace the perceived discomfort or challenges along the way.

36:50

What would I do if I assumed I was never going to feel ready? What would I do if I assumed I was never going to feel ready.

37:01

Yeah Yeah.

37:05

Did you and your husband have to get  on the same page? With that I'm sure there were conversations

37:14

Yes, and I'm a very very blessed woman in that I have a true partner and anytime I say to Eric I think there's this wild thing that I want to go after he's like, okay go I've got you. And I realize that might not be the case for everybody, but he is willing to say, we will figure it out. And I can, here's how I can carry or lift more, or here's what we can let go of or put to the side for now. He is much more invested in my wellbeing and creative energy than any financial success. So I think, I mean, people talk a lot.

37:55

I feel like right now about the importance of picking a partner as an entrepreneur, like a life partner, and I think that's one of the many examples as to why.

38:07

My experience with my wife is that  she is often more invested in my holistic health than I am, in part because she suffers the consequences of my unhealth as much as I do. And so I think sometimes as we keep up that frenetic pace and we have, I don't even know what, what  adjective to attach to our relationship with work, but it's a relationship with work that is unhealthy. It's not serving us.

38:46

We tell ourselves that we need to keep going with this because we're serving the people  in our lives. And I think if we were to have a more honest conversation with them, they're like, I'd be fine to drink crappy coffee if you weren't grumpy all the time. Like, hey, if you were actually more fulfilled in your work, I might enjoy living with you more. Why do you think we don't? Why do you think we're so good at deceiving ourselves about why it's necessary to keep going with  work that isn't super fulfilling and in pursuit of income that we may not even need?

39:28

I think our default is to continue in the momentum that we're already going. And so if we're already  committed to a lifestyle or a culture or  a speed at which we work, by default, it will stay the same. On a deeper level, I found it to be true that people are not always willing or ready to ask the question, if I decide to drastically change, I make this pivot, what does that mean?

40:07

Because a lot of times people say, within everything that I've worked for. It's kind of like what that, you know, young 20 year old Hannah, when I didn't want to be a photographer anymore, it felt like everything I'd worked for up until now is meaningless. And while that wasn't the truth, it sure as heck felt that way in the moment.

40:28

I think that question, what is staying in the same place costing me? Or how did you say it? I like your phrasing better.

40:42

I think it was, what is the cost of staying? What is the cost of keeping the same momentum. Most people think about what we'll get in the, well now I lost my train of thought. Sorry.

40:54

What do I get if I keep moving in this direction rather than what do I lose or what is it costing me to keep moving this direction? I think that question is so powerful because it takes what can be  scary decisions or new commitments or a change in direction and reduces it to almost like a simple math equation. Like on balance, if I keep moving this direction, what does that get me? And if I keep moving that direction, what does that cost me on balance? Do I like that equation?  Do I like that math?

41:37

And I know that to manage my own emotions around some of this stuff, I have to make it that simple sometimes. So when you are helping entrepreneurs muddle through their emotions, how do you help them get that clarity? Is it just questions? Do you have specific tools that, you know, one or two of which you could share?

42:07

Yeah. So there are some frameworks and tools that I think support the work, but by and large, the human in front of me is the curriculum. And so I don't have a one size fits all approach. The answer for one person could be really empowering and that same answer for another person in a similar situation could feel really limiting. And so while I have frameworks that I would take people through it at times, a lot of it is about asking good questions, sharing reflections of what I hear them saying, or even the way that I hear them saying it. There was a client last week, we were talking about a future outcome that she wanted, and I was inviting her, I think it was a year from now, let's talk about the situation. And she was talking about it almost like it was third person.

43:04

And she was saying... She wasn't present with it, which was the invitation. And so I simply  named that I noticed that. And it was this beautiful light bulb moment because she realized if she actually embodied that version, if she actually embodied that way of being and moving through the world, all the things she was worried about weren't there. And that was actually the difference. And so she said, I mean, her whole demeanor shifted because she realized she was  not connecting it to a reality and talking about it a little bit more removed. So there's no, there's no formula or framework for that, but it is the skill of noticing, giving observation...

43:54

So how did, like aside from the, her word choice, and helping her realize you are actually detaching yourself from this own thing that you're describing. What does it mean in practical terms? Like what did it do for her? Like what, how did she show up differently once she realized a need to be embodied? I need to be fully present in my own life. And also it sounds like based on the situation you described fully present in this future, I think that I want.

44:32

Yes. So as you can imagine, confidentiality is really important to me and to my clients. So I can't name the specifics, but what I can say is her original vision was pretty broad and it was almost this sense of this is a good idea. This is what I should want. These are my general personality quirks and how I move through this role. And I'd like to be a better version of that. And as we went through our coaching, was, it actually narrowed into one particular relationship and how she wanted to relate to that individual and how she wanted to show up in her role. And I experienced, you know, her kind of coming in, like, I keep saying this frenetic energy versus like pulling back, chest up, really grounded, very present and able to make decisions from that posture versus this trying to get or do something.

45:35

And so it changed the way that she interacted with that person, but also it changed her destination, what she was trying to achieve.

45:45

So it sounds like  she needed to get really specific and vivid with this future. And that future  was a relationship and even getting vivid and specific required defining how she would show up in that relationship. And then maybe you can come up with some things to do, but it's like being before doing it sounds like.

46:15

Absolutely. My goodness. Yeah. Most, especially Western world, we want to do, we want to achieve. We want to focus on arriving and it's much more resourceful with, okay, well, who do I want to be?  And let the doing flow from the being. And something I've been really interested in lately is  being less  concerned with the arriving and enjoying the journey itself and not  just as, you know, quick and feeling this anxiety about, I got to get there. I've got to achieve this. I got to be able to add this to my website or my bio. Like, what if  the journey is actually the part that's really precious? And I think walking the Camino certainly opened up a lot of that, but not focusing so much on the arrival.

47:05

Clarify what the Camino is for folks.

47:09

Oh, so sorry. Yes. So The Camino de Santiago is a pilgrimage that starts in the south of France and you walk through Spain to the coast. It's 800 kilometers. And my husband and I walked it last year and it was a beautiful, beautiful experience.

47:25

This conversation has been delightful, which  did not, does not surprise me. For folks who are interested in who you are, what you're doing now, maybe even what it might look like to work with you. What would you say?

47:46

I would say, let curiosity lead the way forward.

47:51

That's a perfect full circle moment, right?

47:53

But I certainly am open to answering questions. If individuals want to contact me either in DMs on Instagram at hellohannasoto. We also could put my email in the show notes. I would be more than happy to have a conversation about what coaching could look like. I would say what people need to be able to answer is what is the pain point they're feeling now or what is their desired outcome. Sometimes people don't have the outcome, they just have the pain point.

48:30

Sometimes they have both, but I... and really enjoy and found it most beneficial to work with people that know there's this thing that I feel stuck or it feels heavy or there's tension or there's conflict heaviness, know, typically negative emotions, or there's this thing that feels really compelling and I just find myself stuck. I know I want to get there. I'm clear about that, but for some reason I'm not making meaningful progress there.

49:03

So we will put a link in the show notes so that people can connect with you. Maybe even book a vision call. I think maybe we ought to restrict that just in case more people than we expect are interested, which wouldn't surprise me. So what, maybe three people can reach out and hop on a call with you.

49:26

I love that. Yeah. Yep. I would.

49:28

So we'll put that link in the show notes. You said you're on Instagram. All right. Parting  wisdom.  If you were going to start your business from scratch, starting today, what are the first three things you would do? And this is a surprise question. I'm kind of sorry. I don't think I've done this to another guest.

49:53

No need to be sorry. So the question is, what would be the three things that I think they should do before starting a business?

50:01

Today.

50:02

Great. I would say get clear about what about your idea is unique or the way that you approach it is unique. So it could be something like copywriting that's not unique, but the way you approach it is unique. I would say to do market research. I think this is a step a lot of people skip where it's an idea they love and they're excited about, so they launch it. So being able to talk to five to 10 of your ideal clients, getting feedback from them and starting. I think this is where you'll never feel ready. There'll always be a website you can update. There'll always be, you know, a lead magnet you want to generate. There will always be an excuse if you look for it. And so  just start.

50:51

Great. Thank you again, Hannah. I appreciate you, friend.

50:55

My pleasure, Austin. This was lovely.

50:58

Hey, before you go, let me invite you to join our community for more established advanced freelancers.  It's called the Freelance Cake Community. One member named Michelle had this to say, I'm just so impressed by the quality of the conversation that's happening in the group.  The in-depth questions, experiments and thoughts being shared  are just so refreshing. And the other communities I'm a part of, it's all beginner questions, which is fine, but it's awesome to find a more advanced space where it's okay to ask more advanced questions. Thank you, Michelle.

51:36

Here's a little more about the community. Each week we do live group coaching and live coworking. You get access to a massive resource library and obviously the community itself, which we host using Circle. Of course, the people are the best part of all this. It really helps to surround yourself with smart, accomplished, and optimistic people who are out there taking risks  and building the businesses they really want. If that interests you, visit freelancecake.com/community to learn more and apply. You can find that link in the show notes. I hope to see you there.